This morning I received a phone call from Keith Barker from Carolina Biological. He was the spokesperson I was told would respond to my request for information about thousands of skinned cats they supply to schools across the country.
I told him about the various charges leveled against Carolina that hey obtained the cats from Mexico.
He repeated that the country is awash with cats killed in shelters and that is where Carolina gets theirs. He said he had no reason to lie.
I then asked, o.k., if you have no reason to lie, which shelters do you get the cats from? Can you give me a contact person or phone number to verify his claim?
He stated that was proprietary information and he was not going to give me that information. We ran around this bush for awhile going nowhere on either side.
He repeatedly asked me who I was and who I was associated with. I told him I was a private citizen conducting an investigation.
He stated there was no reason for him to provide any information about the source of the cats to someone without a connection to some large organization.
I asked if he would be willing to talk to someone from the Daily News or LA Times. At this point, he went silent and stated he just was not going to provide this information.
Now we are talking about several hundred thousand of healthy cats a year supplied to schools across the country. I don't know how many are supplied by Carolina Biological, but they supposedly are the largest supplier.
Barker said the cadavers were of healthy cats killed in shelters.
To supply the 250,000 cats sold to schools across the country, would require at least 600,000 (very conservative) killed by shelter cats, including kittens and ill or very aged cats.
Actually, the number of dead cats would have to be much higher, as most shelters dispose of their dead cats through rendering companies and perhaps landfills as he alleges. I doubt if more than 20% of the healthy cats killed are sold to Carolina Biological or other vendors.
We are now talking about a couple of million killed shelter cats to be able to supply 250,000 cat cadavers to Carolina and other vendors.
Later I was talking to Tim from Ward's Scientific, who also sells skinned and unskinned cats and may be the #2 supplier, because other companies, such as Sergent-Welsh, another cadaver vendor gets their cats from Wards. Tim told me they get their killed cats from shelters too.
But Carolina Biological prides themselves in supplying cats that have never been frozen because freezing changes cadaver coloring and texture. This means Carolina must get their cats close by, unless they have someone standing outside of dozens of shelters waiting for kill day, grab the cats, put them in a cooler and truck them a 1,000 miles to Greensboro N.C. That is, procuring the cats from remote shelters without freezing is implausible.
No totality of shelters within a thousand miles of their North Carolina location kill that many animals a year in a way they are not frozen.
I talked to Jennifer at Sargent Welch in Western N.Y., who stated they get their cats from Wards.
I called Wards Scientific located in Rochester N.Y., and talked to Tim. Tim stated their cats are often frozen because the shelters they get their cats from mostly do freeze them before being sent to Wards where they are preserved in formaldehyde. he also stated the usual, that that also get cats from licensed USDA dealers. Of course where the dealers get their cadavers from is any one's guess, and most people guess from breeders or "bunchers."
Tim seemed credible compared to Barker at Carolina. Tim said cats are a sticky issue at campuses across the country and they offer other preserved animal cadavers, such as fetal pigs or rabbits.
For the life of me, I cannot see how anyone does not see this whole situation as both a moral issue and an ethical issue. Shapiro has written a whole textbook and teaches classes defending animal dissection and animal vivisection and research. Apparently he sees it as neither. It is even more remarkable that he likens vegetarians to be like Hitler and the Nazis.
I want to make a statement here. After all is said and done, it is groups like PETA, the ADL and ALF that strongly investigate biological houses, vivisectors and poorly performing shelters. I think they see the big picture and though wrapped up in specifics, also see the larger picture. It is PETA that exposed Carolina Biological 15 years ago with video showing live embalming of cats.
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19 comments:
The important thing is that you feel good about yourself in a wonderfully positively way.
It's sad when non-profit agencies like PETA, the ADL and the ALF all do a better job of oversight than publicly funded agencies like the USDA. What is insulting is that they keep taking our tax money and continue not to do their jobs. If the same informtion uncovered by PETA was coming from the USDA, the whole world would stand up and put a stop to it. What is it with the ignorance of some people that if it doesn't come from their corrupt government, then it must not be true? Yet these government agencies act on the information uncovered by PETA, the HSUS, ALF and ADL because once it's made public they have no other choice than to finally do their jobs. As a taxpayer, I am insulted and I want my money back.
I'm glad you're doing this. It must be very hard.
The one thing that struck me as odd is the notion that somehow killing rabbits and fetal pigs is less disturbing than killing cats.
They slaughter pregnant pigs by the truckload for fetuses? That's like how they get Persian lamb, by killing the lambs either right after they're born, or just ripping them out of the mothers -- all so the wool stays nice and curly.
And LIVE embalming of cats? Who does that except a psychopath? Who even dreams up that kind of sadism?
No wonder people think animal rights activists are crazy. First off, if you didn't know people made their living doing things like this you'd think anyone telling you about it would have to be nuts. And, on our side, how can you know this and not feel like the whole world is insane? How can knowing all this not affect you?
I worked for carolina biological supply co. a few years ago for almost 2 years. I helped with the cats. i see nothing wrong with what carolina does. the cats are being killed anyway at these shelters. Instead of tossing the dead cats somewhere carolina uses these cats to educate. They send them to many veterinary schools where students learn to save the lives of animals. Whats wrong with that? You can't learn about the anatomy of an animal or how to perform surgery on an animal from a text book. As far as the LIVE embalming of cats go....psssh please. Your right no one would do that except a psycho. Dont you think if they were embalming cats while they were still alive someone like the the USDA or someone else would put a stop to it...get real. If you want the REAL facts talk to someone like me who worked there and actually did this job...not some jackass from PETA making up lies and speculation. I no longer work for carolina and therefore have no obligation to them...i just want you all to get the facts straight.
Didn't you read this post before commenting?
CAROLINA BIOLOGICALS WOULD NOT SPEAK TO ME. I ASKED THEM TO NAME EVEN ONE SHELTER FROM WHICH THEY ALLEGEDLY GOT THEIR CATS. BARKER SAID HE'D NEVER RESPOND. WHY?
If he won't talk to us, give us the name on an alleged shelter that supplies them---or give us the name of an alleged employee, we have no information accept that from PETA and other animal rights people.
Don't blame us for Carolina's failure to communicate.
Lastly, if you really are an ex-employee and truly have no obligation to them, please let me know the names and contact numbers for some of the shelters they supposedly got the cats from.
If you can't do it, how do I not know you are not Barker making up Matthew?
We readers out here need some proof.
Also, if you read previous posts, you'd see the USDA did sanction Carolina.
Didn't you read this post before commenting?
CAROLINA BIOLOGICALS WOULD NOT SPEAK TO ME. I ASKED THEM TO NAME EVEN ONE SHELTER FROM WHICH THEY ALLEGEDLY GOT THEIR CATS. BARKER SAID HE'D NEVER RESPOND. WHY?
If he won't talk to us, give us the name on an alleged shelter that supplies them---or give us the name of an alleged employee, we have no information accept that from PETA and other animal rights people.
Don't blame us for Carolina's failure to communicate.
Lastly, if you really are an ex-employee and truly have no obligation to them, please let me know the names and contact numbers for some of the shelters they supposedly got the cats from.
If you can't do it, how do I not know you are not Barker making up Matthew?
We readers out here need some proof.
Also, if you read previous posts, you'd see the USDA did sanction Carolina.
Why would carolina give you the names of there suppliers. So you can then go and make allegations about them also? That's hurtful to there business. And DON'T be fooled. These aren't people that do this job because they get some kind of sick enjoyment out of sticking cats/rats on a board and injecting hem. This IS a business. Seeing as how your not an employee of carolina and your not there supplier and your OBVIOUSLY not a customer...that makes it business that does not involve you or anyone else in your situation. Unfortuntely i signed a contract stating i would not give the names or #'s of contacts that i have or have had while working at carolina. What Carolina does is completely legal and is in no way cruel or inhumane. The animals are already dead when they get to carolina. Carolina simply uses the cadavers as a learning tool to teach future doctors and veterinarians. Think about that the next time you take your pet to the vet.
OH and by the way...the USDA may have sanctioned Carolina bio. Were any charges filed? And, lastly, carolina biological makes millions of dollars a year. Do you think anyone that works there cares what you think? Do you really think barker cares enough to make up a name and get on here and argue with you. Is this blog going to shut carolina down or change the world in anyway? No. so why would a rich bastard like barker waste his time on you of all people?
Hey Mathew, you are a bit dense aren't you?
"Why would carolina give you the names of there suppliers. So you can then go and make allegations about them also?"
I want to talk to the suppliers to see if Carolina was getting dead cats from them. What allegations would I make to the supplier, Carolina said they did not get cadavers from them?
There is spelled "their."
Seeing as how your not an employee of carolina and your not there supplier and your OBVIOUSLY not a customer...that makes it business that does not involve you or anyone else in your situation.
Of course is is my business. It is the business of everyone who loves animals. "Your" is spelled "you are."
Unfortuntely i signed a contract stating i would not give the names or #'s of contacts that i have or have had while working at carolina.
Convenient for both you and them, no? Therefore there is no proof of your asllegation. Just blowing wind.
Confidentiality agreements are usually time limited. Nor does Carolina need to know who you are if you sign in under a different name.
What Carolina does is completely legal and is in no way cruel or inhumane. The animals are already dead when they get to carolina. Carolina simply uses the cadavers as a learning tool to teach future doctors and veterinarians.
NONSENSE!
Cadavers are sold to high school biology classes, HS science classes, College freshman and sophomore science and biology classes, and only the smallest part to pre vet schools, and then to vet schools.
Think about that the next time you take your pet to the vet.
Is this blog going to shut carolina down or change the world in anyway? No. so why would a rich bastard like barker waste his time on you of all people?
Well, you are "wasting" your time responding to this post aren't you? Pierce is rethinking its suppliers.
I think you are making up all this about being an employee.
I'm a undergrad in Canada currently studying as a Biology Specialist and taking an anatomy course where I do have to dissect a cat as part of my education. We get our specimens from Carolina as well and I happened across your blog entry about your investigation.
I must say, I'm impressed that you managed to speak to that many biological providers! I'm studying to be a vet one day and I do have some reservations about dissecting animals, but there really is no better way to learn other than from a real specimen. And, like you and many others, I do find it quite suspicious that Carolina and other suppliers don't give out information that may or may not be satisfactory to our moral and ethical standards.
But at the same time, I can see why Barker and others didn't give shelter names to you. If they did, they'd be obligated to give sensitive information like that to anyone, public organization or private citizen, which would undoubtedly lead to a swarm of phone calls, emails, petitions, potential riots and the like outside of these shelters, leading to slow or a complete halt of their services.
I would suggest teaming up with other animal lovers such as yourself in your area to get enough strength from an organization to gain access to shelter names, if you really want to. As you may well know, media power forces big companies to give up information when pressed hard enough.
That is easier said than done.
I investigate many issues. Every now and again I find an issue that is important to several people and we can run with it until we reach our legal or energy limits.
But it is hard to find 10 people interested in any one topic I bring up.
Sure, I'd like to see Carolina investigated, but few others care.
The only issue I find universal for this blog is distain for Boks and the need to get rid of him.
Otherwsie, it is too hard to get an organization together to follow all the other investigations.
This is unbelievable! ! These are our companion animals. ... and what if shelters were killing them on purpose because the animals were worth more to them dead rather than alive? What if people went around trapping them and and bringing them in for profit? Have any of you idiots thought of this? This is pure evil and no one will ever convince me otherwise! I'd be willing to bet that many of these cats are supplied by NYC ACC SHELTERS!
They sell live animals more often than not, dogs and cats. Labs have many avenues open to them allowingcready access to animals
They are trapping people's pets and strays all over NYC and dumping to their death at the NYC ACC SHELTERS where they are being murdered without the use of proper sedation first. .... is Carolina Bio getting their specimens from NYC?
Is this a dead thread?
i hope it is not , would love to get in touch with the writer, i too am seeking n c shelter source list.
There is rumor that they are getting them from Robeson co NC shelter. It has the highest euthanasia in the state. I have been there.
Me too
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