Started at 6:42 p.m.
Councilmembers Zine, Cardenas, present, Parks, Absent
Boks Also Absent.
Zine: There is only one item on the agenda. There are a number of representatives from animal services, commissioners, union, public. We will hear from all. We did the evening meeting so employees and public could attend. This Committee will not take any action as an unfair labor practice is pending. We have no jurisdiction. It's all up to mayor. We have no power to direct, only the commission and mayor have the power. Please, don't use name of employees. I came forward to set up this meting.
How many have attended council meeting?
How many not?
Okay, Sergeant at arms makes sure the meeting is orderly. Let's be professional. It will be videotaped for channel 35 for a later broadcast.
I see representation from the union. Let's begin with them, then dept employees then public. Please, fill out a speaker card.
Julie Butcher, seiu local 721, Thanks for taking the time, thanks from the union and the animals we serve. These are workers of animal services. This was not our first stop with these discussions. We've raised concerns before. We have specific proposals. We support new spayneuter ordinance. We need more folks knocking on doors, more mobile spay, need to license more animals, reach out to vommunities, messages in multiple languages, reuinite more, adopt out more.
Needs of animals not being served by current management. We tried to work with the dept, dept mgmt, to no avail.
Zine: Please, explain.
Julie: We presented you with incredible detail on every effort we made. We recognize courage of workers for standing up, never seen retaliation like this before from this mgmt.
Zine: I spent 33 years with lapd, retired 2001. I'm concerned about city employees. I'm against any retaliation. I want to know about any retaliation personally. There will be no retaliation against anyone who testifies in this hearing. We will intercede.
It's illegal to retaliate. I won't tolerate it.
I know after last meeting the GM visited certain facilities. You asked for union protection. We are responsible for 40,000 employees.
Union leader Victor Gordo: Thanks. First we are not happy to be here. We tried to work with mgmt of this dept as individual unions and collectively. We've met with him, not withstanding his communication (saying we didn't).
There is now an unfair labor practice charge pending with employee relations board filed after city council meeting. You will see specific examples of retaliation.
It started back in march 2008 when we tried to work with gm, then with the mayors office. The gm acknowledges that he received names from mayors office and acted upon it. It's startling to see it in
writing. The charge itself is 7-8 pages, attachments back up unfair labor practices and retaliation. This is unprecedented for this many members to stand up, to say we've had it, together with animal rights community. We can't bear to watch animals being treated this way by mgmt policies and procedures. We've been treated poorly, residents aren't getting services paid for and entitled to. We ask that you take an interest on behalf of animals, employees and constituents.
These are dept wide concerns, concerned equally with animal rights, employee safety. Animal welfare at stake here. I've worked with 9 gms, never been this united (against one).
Resources are an issue, not resources, it's deployment of existing resources. It's alarming only one enforcement officer for 1M people. The enforcment unit disbanded so fewer anmals would be collected from the street, just so he can say we're nokill, fewer animals picked up, fewer to deal with. Who suffers?; animals and public. It's not acceptable. Warehousing is not acceptable.
Dog runs made for 1-2 dogs. They put 7 in the runs. Dog fights,employees have to break up the fights.
Misleading data handed to you. We want more than just PR. All we've gotten is poor judgement and retaliation. In the letter sent to you by gm said only small group of people dislike Boks. You saw at council that is not the case. It's dept wide. His Sept 9 letter said we didn't try to work with him. That's incorrect, misleading.
In boks own emails it shows that we tried to resolve these issues with him. I question the veracity of his statements and data given to council. We're tired of mismanagement , poor judgement, misleading data. He is not responsive to you, poor services, endangerment of animals. They are all an equal danger to public safety. We have mgmt team who is not leading and employees can't follow. Please, take it seriously. We are frustated, cannot follow someone who isn't leading.
Zine: i got a leltter today from boks, said he can't attend the meeting, wants to discuss action plan. He said he will meet with union and mayor 0ct 9. Will you be a part of that meeting?
Victor: Yes, mayors office asked to meet. We had previous meetings with the mayors office which resulted in retaliation.
Zine. Was that meeting called as result of this meeting?
Zine: The mayor is the man who hires gms. The Mayor can terminate, then gm can come to city council to try to get job back. Mayor hires, fires, we only confirm.
Zine: Contact my office if there are any results of that meeting. Did you talk to (animal services) commission?
Victor: We have attended meetings.
Julie: We were at commission. Their role is unclear. Commissioners are here tonight. There's no one on the planet that these workers haven not talked to (laughter, applause).
Keith Kramer: Captain,sen aco 2, (hands over documents), 24 years with dept, boardmember of la chapter of labor international union, 777.
In my 24 years during several gms, the only thing that remains the same is change. Never before has dept mgmt and employees been so deeply divided. Please, read through the materials, call if you have questions. We are representing half of the dept employees against Boks.If it fails, our stressful working environment will get worse.
We will lose employees. They will quit because of boks.
Cardenas: Who do you represent?
Kramer: Law enforcmenet, field operations, ACOs, Sen ACOs, WV animal shelter, all under my authority, ACTs, clerical.I also work with medical staff, RVTs, vets.
Zine: What is the organization of command?
Kramer: gm, 2 agms, direct field operations 2, then captains. acts are lowest
(a joke). Volunteers are not lowest (laughter).
Zine: Where did the agms come from? Work way up the ranks?
Kramer: One came from Dallas, other came from Parks Dept.
Glen Brown: I've been a commissioner since 2005, President since August 11.
My folks noticed this problem in the paper. No one brought this to us. (Actually, employees, volunteers, rescuers have been emailing, calling all the commissioners about this for over two years). We don't handle personnel issues. I invite employees and mgmt to try to work this out.
These are turbulent times. We try to be even handed. I do investigation work. I don't accept statements on face value. I visit the clinics, uh, I mean the shelters. I spoke with gm and mayors office looking for money for jobs. This should have come to our dept first, maybe the system could have worked. I invite all employees, staff, come back to try to work it out. We are not a rubber stamp for anybody.
We didn't know about this until saw in the paper. (I really doubt that statement. Everyone has known about these problems for years
Zine: The commission was unaware of dissatisfaction in dept?
Brown: I heard comments, didn't know it was on a mass basis, a movement. No one came to commision to tell us. The last time in 2005 there was a mass show of support for last GM. We are ready to handle problem.
Zine: Union, employees never came to comm to voice concerns?
Brown: Never came before us.
Zine: Does comm do valuations on gm?
Brown: We don't, it's the mayor's job. We ask boks to report to us, about data, but haven't launched an inquiry into that data. A lot of things need to be probed. We lost a lieutenant to county because of this. We can talk about it, work it out.
Zine: Is the gm responsive to commission? (employees laugh) Polices should go through commission. Is gm responsive to direction?
Brown: He sometimes is though not immediately, same with prior gm. You have to probe.
Zine: What about the nokill policy
Brown: We've had a discussion on what those numbers mean. Numbers may not be what they appear to be, need to probe differently. I'm interested in animal cruelty, homeland security. Animal activists were determined to be number one terrorist group in america. I'm trying to get homeland security funds to use against them.
Cardenas: Are you here as an individual or commissioner?
Brown: I'm here as commission president and individual
Cardenas: Are you speaking on behalf of commission?
Brown: Yes. (No, he's speaking only as himself. He doesn't understand the
question or law involved)
Cardenas: You go to shelters, you hear complaints? what do you do with them?
Brown: I've been gathering them, last six months
Cardenas: Why do you visit shelters?
Brown: To see what is going on, get a feel, and to shake hands, let them know that I'm there.
Cardenas: When they give you information, what should you do with it?
Brown: I have conversations about bad kennel design. It's tough to shovel waste Jacob Miller: I'm here to explain how he runs this, intimidation, act of compelling by threats, act of getting revenge. At all hands meetings he keeps employees in separate groups, we gave suggestions, were brushed aside, not direction we wanted to go, direction not clearly laid out. We were told to tell public we're becoming nokill, when we are low kill. An employee was shot down in front of over 100 employees, it continued. Boks said anyone not working toward poorly defined goals, he'll help him get a new job(fired). Divide and conquer. We are not allowed to question his way.
After the city council meeting, all supervisors were asked who worked to compare to people at council meeting. Employees can't attend meeting
on city time. After council meeting on 9/11 Boks went at 6 a.m. to talk to employees with no supervisors present at the shelter.
Boks returned with three citizens to question employees, found a supervisor, He let the citizens interrogate the supervisor. The gm defended citizens only, supervisor couldn't research any records, supervisor was degraded and bullied, forced her to pull up computer records, interrogated for over an hour.
Boks said she must comply as he is the gm. He wrote letter to city council saying we were complaining, he says my way or the hiway. He's made threats against us with threats. It's a hostile work environment, thanks.
Zine: How long with city?
Jacob: My life. 7 years as ACT,
Zine: How often all hands on deck meeting?
Jacob: Not recently probably because he can't answer questions. He couldn't tell us the difference between nokill and lokill. We were told to sit down, sit down, never answered.
Zine: Nokill, lokill, some animals are sick, injured. I discussed with gm. Are all euthanasias reported and included in the numbers? Or only adoptable animals that are euthanized?
Jacob: I don't control numbers. Boks is cooking the books. Animal classified one way when should be another way.
Zine: The account published, does it exclude ill, not adoptable animals?
Cardenas: When did all hands meetings start?
Jacob: Day one when Boks started. The front line employees, those in background, middle managers are wonderful people. The only people who show up to those meetings were front line employees, acts, vts, clerical, acos.
They are required to show up, at friendship park, 100 plus people attended meeting, conducted by Boks.
The purpose of meeting was because we would undergo radical change,
restructure, going nokill. He had cameras, independent filmers, filming his big show, after two meetings they stopped following him around (Someone was going to do a documentary of Boks making LA nokill. They realized they were wasting their time and stopped the move. People are concerned about ideas and messages, mission, values, logo.Why did we need new mission statement?
(Boks took the mission statement directly from New York) If we remembered the mission statement, we'd get a candy bar, i got one word wrong, no candy bar. He was patrionizing.
Cardenas: Patrionizing not against the law in this country. What was wrong?
Jacob: We never got any answers
Cardenas: Give specific example
Jacob: Lo kill and nokill. Why are we telling public we're going to nokill, why not lokill. Boks told the person who asked the question to sit down. Nokill by his definition means we will be killing some for behavior, medical, space. We felt it was a lie.
Zine: Is there a policy manual for dept? nokill, lokill.
Jacob: We haven't had a dept manual for years. We used to have hard copy and on intranet. There currently is no policy manual. Only two AGMs have policy manual. Ed boks doesn't give us tools or materials to get info out to employees. We didn't know if we could wear uniforms today. Can't make heads or tails, no manual. No clear policy. We have one 2002 copy of manual. No updates, no CD, or VHS, beta, dvd.
New programs are very confusing like bottle baby foster, new hope
Linda Gordon: 31 yrs, ACO, college degree, admin, senior mgmt analyst two. I sit in a corner somewhere, no one talks to me, if I die hopefully the cleaning crew will find me and haul me out,
Zine: Were you ostracized? Why in cubby hole?
Gordon: It's a passion in the dept. We are family here, all together, not just a job. My son works for dept, husband and son here to support me today. Commission stated they did not want to have anything to do with listening to employees.
Brown was on commission at that time. Commission divided on this issue. Mayor told commissioners not to be here tonight, other commissioner, president brown does not speak on behalf of the commission, we are willing and able to do the job that needs to be done, however, unable to do that because Boks not doing a service to or for city of LA. We are here because we went to mayor. Boks has failed. More than half employees are here. How can he expect us to move forward if we have no
confidence or trust in GM.
We worked with previous GMs. We are tough, committed to animals. We don't need a GM who can't tell truth to council. He's lied to you,
employees, public, need one with integrity, truthful. He can't see suffering of warehoused pets. We don't need a gm that if we want to know what's happening he tells us to read his blog. He sent email telling employees to read his blog if they want to know what's going on. He sees law enforcmenet as a burden, such as
He thinks only about public relations, writing on his blog and photo ops.
He blames his inability to lead on his staff/ We meed a GM who will lead by example. Boks renames programs, claims them as his own. He degrades, intimidates and blames employees. We need one who instills pride. We would settle for a gm that after 2.5 years at least knows our names.
Lack of leadership, atmosphere of fear and intimidation on a daily basis, thank you.
Zine: You do what?
Gordon: Strategic planning the ten steps to nokill. I'm putting action behind words. Boks made nokill our policy first few months but he gave no tools, means, methods to accomplish it. He just "said" we are nokill. He did nothing, no adoption programs.
No pet retention programs, all of the things we need.
Zine: When were you put on strategic plan detail?
Gordon: Feb 2008.
Zine: Two years after he decides to make actual nokill policy? Hmmm. What is your opinion of this gm verses others?
Gordon: i worked closely with each one since 1977. Overall there is no trust in Boks. He denies he said things or was even in a meeting even with 40 witnesses,
Zine: Is there a policy manual?
Gordon: Boks sent memo saying we have no procedure manual. We get info from email or blog.
Harbor has no clue what people at WLA are doing.
Diliberto: 18 years, 17 with dept, was commander, served under Boks for one year.
I keep in touch with employees. I'm now with lapd. Morale at lowest ever. Ive seen 9 GMs.
There is no leadership now, he rarely visited shelters, unless for self serving reason. He didn't care to know employees, didn't want to know them, focused on himself, getting personal publicity. When I went on workers comp, you'd think he'd call me, ask me how I was. I was on animal directors association.
The day after I went on leave he contacted pres of board asking to replace me. The pres called me in shock, she said no, he was not nominated. He's still trying to get on that board and no one has nominated him/ Boks wanted the position. He's not on that board. I went out on stress leave.
Cardenas: Would you be disqualified by your leave?
Diliberto: No. On board two years, VP.
Cardenas: Boks contacted third party and asked how they could create vacancy at your expense?
Diliberto: Yes. At staff meetings, he had his mind made up ahead of time. He'd say I want to do this, what do you think? Even if we said it was a bad idea, he'd do it anyway. He asked us to rubber stamp.
If program failed, he'd blame it on someone else or he'd say "if you knew it was wrong, why didn't you fight we harder to keep me from doing it?" We stopped giving him advice because he wouldn't take it. He wouldn't do what was right. He wanted to change the website.
He wanted to hire someone associated with, don't want to say it publicly but, connections with various animal rights groups Staff did not like her. We said it's a bad idea, staff hates her, he did it anyway. Website had all white people, there was a big to do. It was changed completely again. He said this woman will have complete authority over this website, she can put on it whatever she wanted. He said that's the way it's going to be, then the whole thing blew up, then he denied he said that.
Then he said why didn't you tell me I was saying something that was crazy? I said you weren't listening.
Cardenas: Did boks ever discuss hooters incident?
Diliberto: I was there for that. He presented as a done deal. Boks said hooters was a good idea, already had flyer done, just said we're going to do it. I was going through personal issues, work related, shutting down. Things he claims as successes were things that were already in place
before he got here, or things we already worked on, people weren't given credit when due. Boks is focused on himself and his accomplishments.
I worked on opening of shelters. I didn't even get an invitation when I spent 5-7 years planning them. Good employees have left dept and gone to la county, county recognizes these are great workers.
Zine: Employees please, stand, thanks
Diliberto: Boks never had my back. Stuckey always had my back. You can restore hope to animals.
Zine: We have no authority/. We will submit report to mayors office.
Questions, hooters, pitbulls? were you around? He was at council with the academy without approval.
Diliberto: It was discussed but never officially approved.
Zine: Some have access to firearms. Is there a policy for use? What report is made if its utilized?
Diliberto: There is a manual about firearms on animals. We only use on animals.
There is a form, when I was there, every time gun used, reviewed by supersivor
and signed. 38 caliber revolvers, shotguns, 12 gauge,
Zine: 30 people want to speak. Limit to five minutes, want new info only, personal
knowledge. Only taking testimony from those coming forward. Emails will be placed
in the file. We don't give credit to anonymous or ficticious info.
Commissioner atake: 2005 to 2007. I asked Boks to provide commission copy of
policy manual. Brown said nobody brought issues to commission, farthest from
truth. You need to evaluate commission as well. Look at minutes. I brought those
issues up during my tenure, but i was dismissed. I was told to shut up or else, so I
resigned. Blackman told me to shut up or else. Read my resignation letter, things
are the same if not worse. Many could not come tonight, afraid of retaliation, I
resigned because I couldn't be involved with demoralization.
Commissioner Laura Beth: I have couple of binders of documents. Tonight is
unprecedented, employees and activists united because there are serious
problems. It makes our city look bad. I have examples. The problem is lack of
business like strategy. We have a eries of programs, old programs with new
names, new programs that have no operation. New Hope is the old adoption
partner program. There has been no increase in rescue adoptions. Felix, info on a
web page, no operations. STAR program, get donations to use on animals with
extreme medical needs, only one animal helped. They told me its just a marketing
term only. New mission shelter sitting unused, clinics, none are operating, Boks
and Barth told to reject clinico, shows lack of understanding, we need surgeries,
fortunately commission passed it. Hooters, pitbull academy, endorsing candidates
on blogs, where does he get time to do all that blogging, misstatements to public,
during nokill month he killed 600 animal, said 95% nokill when euth is up 37%,
audits are embarrassment,
Zine: Manual for employees? ever discussed?
Laura Beth: I can't answer, didn't go to meetings after a while. 2002, 2003. there is
no manual, instructions, rules.
Zine: Animals put to sleep, accurate? is Boks excluding some from the count?
Laura: Impossible to answer, not in euth rooms counting. I look at stats, there is
deception in categorizing animals, 95% on way to nokill, we kill thousands more,
Zine: Animals that are sick, behavior problems, not included in euth figures?
Laura: Stats are separate, can't say inaccurate, those numbers are manipulated for
media, statements to you and to mayor. That is how we come up with kind of
statements like we are 95% nokill, stats being spun, numbers online probably
William Transell: In Boks letter to council, he said only small group disliked him,
30/32 supersivors, that's not a small group, all but two, 98%. We have been
attacked by animal rights terrorists. How effective can we be when we've cast our
vote of no confidence
Mirabelle Martinez: Officer Dancy wrote this speech,she couldn't come so I will be
saying it. "I'm one of 32 ACOs, Boks, Barth, Davis, all they have done is play a
numbers game, animals in our care in dangerous conditions. Boks said he'd make
the city nokill in five years, instead 37% increase in euth. He put a moratorium on
behavior related euth, why? He's flip flopped between warehousing to avoid euth
and euth to avoid warehousing. We euth only for behavior or medical, never for
time or space, just a number games. It doesn't help animals get out alive, but does
stroke the ego of ed boks. These games diminish quality of life for animals and
employees. Boks hoards and warehouses, shelters overcrowded, cramped, It's a
ticking timb bomb. He's on fast downward spiral out of control, 9/11 he and Davis
and Capt DeDeaux are only ones qualified if animal has behavior problem and can
be euth. It's an utterly ridiculous and pompous statement. Davis and Boks aren't
behavioral experts. They don't deal with animals , except cute cuddly ones for
Patricia Ott: 15 years, supervisor, EV shelter. I've never been to a comm meeting to
complain because of fear. Sometimes commission isn't fair, especially if Boks is
there. I don't want to get fired, no manual available, he tells the public that we're
wrong, demoralizing, no clear direction, plus one, minus one, we can't go over goal
or face reprimand, then he says it's only a tool, what if we get sick aniamls? hooters
for neuters, I was offended, flyer was in the shelter woman in bikini, working cats
program, Boks told me to, take feral cats and get acclimated to lapd stations. I told
him we can't support that, we can't have more than three animals at any address,
it's illegal,then he pulls me off of it. Myself and other acts, we do our own gardening,
because not in the budget, we are graded on appearance of shelter, how can we
do 95% nokill when we killed 100 kittens in a month? if we had spayneuter,
wouldn't have to do that.
Zine: We had this meeting at 6:30 so no duty schedule conflict. If you're on duty,
please fill out form....
Kathy Moony: aco, 29 years, I take care of database chameleon, statistics, numbers
are accurate but the interpretation of those numbers, maybe not. Nokill, it's an
impossibility, obviously, nokill numbers exclude animals sick, injured, behavior
unsuited, if you take them out, that's what he's using, no one can be nokill unless
they don't accept all animals that come in the door,
Zine: 100 dogs, 50 sick, injured, behv...then 50 adoptable. I had a personal
meeting with Boks months ago. I asked that question, all animals are included
when numbers are reported,
Zine: Who makes euth decision, those numbers are published? sick, injured..?
what is honest truth?when did you do all the numbers?
Kathy: 2-3 years.
Cardenas: Are you aware of any discrepencies not adding up?
Kathy: Raw numbers are accurate or very close.
Cardenas: I was at pr conference this morning. Boks said 15,000 euth'd. euth was
double before he got here, right? (Before he got here 19,000 cats/dogs killed, then
15,000 now we're back at 17,000)
Kathy: We are warehousing more animals. Makes big diff. Boks made decision to
change categories. I've been punished already, I work with Barth. She took action
against me, uncalled for, I feel I cut my own throat by coming up here, because of
what they've done to me, i'll be retiring early in five months. I can't stay now.
Daniel: Divide and conquer. Evaluations, i have no say in evaluations of my
underlings, only a supervisor who does not see them all the time like me. We have
no evacuation plan, 72 dogs in 14 kennels, Boks told him to keep them for 45 days,
plus one, minus one, not a tool, a monopoly of numbers, I've been retaliated
against, we should have 1 animal per cage, maybe 2, I have 126 dogs, 164 cats.
Pan Anna: Captain, grievance, situation, there was a reclassification of assignment,
Boks didn't respond, went to arbitration, we won our case, nothing was done, had
to go to superior court to enforce it. At the end of hands all meeting Boks said
everything kept confidential in this room. Later I overheard him say, gee we should
have tape recorded this one.
Zine: Anyone with anything positive to say about Boks?
Rita Gorman: Boks has brought us all together, very close.
Zine: Other than that. I want to make sure we had a fair hearing.
Rita Gorman: I got the job then had fear of losing it. I held onto it. I have to deal with
rescue people who are not the friendliest, customers that have issues. ACTs get it
from every angle. It doesn't help having a leader, he went off on one of our
supervisors in a medical unit, he doesn't give a crap about animals, these were ill
and injured animals.
Donald Lambley: act, volunteer, at mission shelter used as an annex, we get
evidence animals, kittens, young puppies, very light staff, 8 people. I took care of
210 animals by myself last week on the night shift, feeding shift, no vet techs after 6
Nancy Moriarty: captain. dept isn't ready for emergency. I related this to Boks and
executive staff. We lost emerg prep coordinator. The chain of command is not recog
by union or us. A female employee died at harbor without heart machine. 28 years.
Zine:Has mgmt ever put the dept in this position before?
Zine:Is this the worst?
Nancy: Yes. I was told not to provide instruction via email. Then he said he needed
staff to read his blog for instruction. Manual completed in 2001, It was online,
captain kramer was updating it,
Zine: Wold you say the dept is running on auto pilot?
Nancy: Running by employees, rescue groups and volunteers
Troy Boswell: (missed some). Permits is a sore spot, from elephants to puppy mills,
mgmt makes our staff go after people they find personally offensive, the changes to
circus permits reflects Boks personal feelings about circus animals. No one can
use elephants in LA now, SLA shelter is overcrowded, foreclosures, packs of
animals running loose,
Chris Kale: 8 years, SLA, lack of manual,emergency preparedness.
Leslie Corea: (didn't come up to speak)
Dr. Katie Rainey: former employee, ex chief of vets, posters of hooters in the
shelters, I was with the dept 2 years, little less, I resigned, Boks gave approval on
those posters, he said he didn't but he did. He said vegan vixens would be serving
food at grand opening ceremony, new shelter opening, gordon said not a good
idea after hooters, it didn't happen.
Zine: vegan vixens?
Katie: We had an out break of canine distemper, Boks said there's a cure, he said
open the clinic but it would threaten my license, he showed no regard for my
license, said we would prescribe drugs to adopters, we can't do it, not legal, I don't
have pharmacy license
Zine: Why did you leave?
Katie: I had a diff of opinion between GM in respect to infectious diseases. He
wanted us to foster animals with giardia, coccidia, scabies, if someone got ill from
those animals, it's not good. Under Boks, situation could arise that would place my
license in jeopardy. Please, include vet union in the upcoming meeting, look at
how many vets left during Boks, look at former employees, request my emails
between Boks and me, medical ethics, that's why I left. i was friends with dr.smith ex
head vet, Boks wanted people access to rabies area, not a good idea, I was with
public county health dept previously, Boks waved me off, he publicly embarrassed
me. He ridiculed me in front of staff. Ed chose wrong profession,he should be a
politician, he's good at not making the comment,but he'll use gestures , like waving
people off. I wrote a SOP (standards of operation), I wanted a manual for my staff to
follow, he said it was too long, Boks said he or knaan could defer a neuter surgery,
vets should make that decision, medical. I was told we were having a free
vaccinations and microchip event, no one told me, I heard about it from the Vet
Tech, An ACT would run it. You need a vet if rabies shot, Boks said "Rainey you are
getting dramatic again. plus one, minus one, just a quota system,
Cardenas: Plus one, minus one, figure based on previous year? not actual need in
treal time situation but making decision on something based on 12 months ago?
Katie: He would scold you if you went over number,
(someone else came up to explain plus one, minus one. Plus one, minus one
means that every day or month you must at least euthanize one fewer and adopt
Cardenas: What if it's sick? It doesn't count in euth category anyway, so what, they
are in sick category
Someone: He would hold us to that.
Cardenas: what if they got really sick ?
Someone: A vet had to decide to euth, write a report then we must respond.
Rainey: I got stuck with job when smith left, six turnover vets during two years, not
good pay compared to private practice, i enjoyed it, it was about serving a
community. my concern was working with someone who could jeopardize my
Zine: I recommend to continue hearing, listen to two employees, then general
called two employees, gone. 10:15, started at 6:30